Katty and Carlos open the series with a bold and difficult question: has America been humbled by the Covid-19 pandemic? The US has reached the grim milestone of 200,000 coronavirus deaths and more than 6.8 million people are known to have been infected, more than in any other country. Many Americans were blindsided by how badly the country has been hit. Has this created a dent in the idea of American exceptionalism? And if so, how can the nation recover its self-confidence?

Katty and Carlos are joined by former Republican Senator Jeff Flake and New York Times Pentagon correspondent Helene Cooper.

Produced by Sandie Kanthal, Viv Jones and Maeve McGoran, with reporting from Suzanne Kianpour. Show less