Frans de Waal, a professor of psychology at Emory University in the USA, who is renowned for his work with non-human primates, resolves to find ways in which humans can learn to live alongside animals.

“The problems we have with the diseases that are coming up are all problems of us setting ourselves apart and thinking we can do anything we like with animals, with nature - because we think we are far superior.”

During lockdown, he’s imagined a new system for supermarkets to adopt which will let customers know where the meat they are buying has come from, and make clear what is meant by, for example, ‘free-range’ or ‘organic’. He proposes a scan code on the packaging that customers can read with their smart phones, which gives images and information about the farm and the ethos of the farmer.

A Cast Iron Production for the BBC World Service.
Part of Rethink - a series of programmes on BBC Radio looking at how the world should change post-coronavirus. Show less